'What this music is really about': An Interveiw with Max Roach

By MALIK B. ALI

Crimson Staff Writer

Call Max Roach Mr. Cutting Edge. In the 1940s and 50s, Roach catalyzed the drum set’s redefinition with his sophisticated rhythmic approach. His Freedom Now Suite of 1960—a work banned by the Republic of South Africa—reflected his political concerns. In the 1970s Roach founded the M’BOOM Percussion Ensemble. Over the years, he has worked with actor Bill Cosby, poet Maya Angelou and playwright Sam Shepard, among others.

Roach’s deliberate mixture of media and art forms is closely mirrored by the multicultural nature of the drum set. As Roach explains, the cymbals are from the Middle East, Africa and Native America provide the side drums, and the snare and bass drums are shared by various world musics. All this diversity leads Roach to reject limiting labels. He believes “Jazz” is one such label.

In April 2001, Roach was honored as Harvard’s Guest Artist in Residence. The residency culminated in a concert that featured Roach, along with pianist Connie Crothers and dancer Dianne Walker. On the eve of that event, Roach discussed with The Crimson a few of his views on art, history, and life.

The Harvard Crimson: This event reflects Harvard’s commitment to your art form. What do you think of the modern movement to advance the music in academic settings?

Max Roach: Well, it’s not anything that hasn’t been happening. When I was very young academia was interested in this music. A lot of professors are interested in the music from a historical point of view, they’ve written extensively about it. A lot has to be done. I’m interested in the language that they use to describe it. For example, I don’t think jazz is a good word to describe what this music is really about.

THC: What is your impression of that word, the history of it?

MR: Jazz means fornication. There were several young men who were accused of raping a young lady, the Scottsboro Boys.

THC: A white woman?

MR: A white girl. They were all young people. The girl wrote a letter to a friend of hers that said, “those boys didn’t jazz me.” Their lawyer, Leibowitz, used that to break the case. In those days, if you touched or looked sideways at a white woman, they could accuse you of anything. That’s one example. Aside from that, when the great minds have that label put on them, it’s a form of segregation that denies those people from being able to fully participate in the world of music. I read an interview of Charlie Parker in Vanity Fair. The interviewer asked him why he didn’t like the word “Bop.” Bird [Parker] probably winced at the word. He asked him what would he like people to call it? Bird said, simply music. So now, you’re not just relegated to these little joints where the acoustics are bad, pianos are bad, just a lot of negative stuff goes on in these places. This again gets back to the Scottsboro Boys. Check all this out.

THC: Lincoln Center recently commissioned a piece called Big Train, with a drum feature in a section called “Engine.” Is it fitting to consider the drums as the engine of the ensemble?

MR: Not really. My first instrument was piano. All the instruments are equal. Everyone’s improvising. everyone’s well versed, regardless of what instrument you perform on. Drummers like Kenny Clarke and Art Blakey played piano also. If you excel on a certain instrument, that’s where you position yourself. Ellington, who’s a composer, he performed on drums as well. Dizzy played all the instruments.

THC: I’ve heard that you have a rather casual way of tuning your drums. How does this work?

MR: The drum set is a group of instruments of indeterminate pitch. So basically it has to do with the phrasing and shape of what you’re doing and the musicians you’re working with.

THC: Many stress the audience’s importance to a musical experience. What is the significance of the audience to you?

MR: The audience is important for many reasons. If you don’t have an audience, you can’t make a living. I’ll put it like this. The audience wouldn’t come to see any of the improvisational people, commonly called [laughs] “Jazz” musicians, if they weren’t communicating. It’s a world of sound that you make people understand. We all are instantly composing, and in order to do that, you have to be well-versed in all of the elements that create this world of organized sound.

THC: While some people plead “art for art’s sake,” your work has always had a political message.

MR: I’m just trying to describe what I see and experience in my lifetime being a person of color. That’s in all my work, because it’s not easy to live in this country that we do being a person of color. When you find yourself being lynched because of color, it’s some barbaric stuff. Know what I mean?

THC: I wonder why the music has not incorporated hip-hop as much. I know you worked with Fab 5 Freddy years ago, and I’m curious about your impression of hip-hop culture.

MR: You see, these names we apply to things. Hip-hop is like Bebop. Fab 5 is now producing, acting. I think it all blends together, let’s not let nicknames separate us. Hip-hop has a lot to do with poetry.

THC: Some artists say hip-hop is not a viable art form.

MR: What about jazz?

THC: That also was said at a time. I don’t think many would say so now. Do you see a connection?

MR: That Parker interview. Call it music. Black music… what does that mean? Music doesn’t have color. Just separating people from the art itself.

THC: You still plan on being involved in your various ensembles, theater scoring and all in the future?

MR: Yes indeed. Not only is this stuff interesting, it uses all your skills. I enjoy being involved in theater, dance, and so on.

THC: You’ve been called a “monitor of music’s instincts.” This speaks to the way you’ve been on top of many movements in music, from Freedom Now to M’BOOM and on. Do you have any interesting plans for the future?

MR: It’s pretty much the same. I like working in theater. I’m working with Ossie Davis. We all learn from each other, writers, musicians. You can’t segregate yourself. Take Harold Nicholas, who passed recently. I worked with him on a movie, Carmen Jones. He sang, he danced, he acted, performed on instruments. The Nicholas Brothers were the reason, indirectly, that blacks could go into white theaters.

THC: And that’s political.

MR: Very much so. I’m looking forward to my Boston concert not only because of the music, but also the dancer, whom I haven’t met yet. But I’ve worked with dancers. I’m excited because it’s just gonna happen.

THC: Another spontaneous invention.

MR: Yes, to say the least.